Impeachment hearings live updates: Vindman testifies that he spoke to intelligence official about Trump’s July 25 call with Ukrainian leader
Vindman is one of four key witnesses testifying at the House Intelligence Committee House Tuesday. The others are: Jennifer Williams, an adviser to Vice President Pence, Tim Morrison, another senior NSC official, and Kurt Volker, a former envoy to Ukraine. Democrats are seeking to prove Trump leveraged military aid and a White House meeting in exchange for investigations of former vice president Joe Biden, his son Hunter and other Democrats.
●Ukrainians ‘came to understand’ what Trump wanted, State Department aide David Holmes testifies.
●House is investigating whether Trump lied to then-special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, its general counsel told a federal appeals court.
●Attacking witnesses is Trump’s core defense strategy in fighting impeachment.
What’s next in the inquiry | Who’s involved in the impeachment inquiry | Key documents related to the inquiry |
Vindman testifies that he spoke to intelligence official about Trump’s July 25 call with Ukrainian leader
Vindman said he discussed Trump and Zelensky’s July 25 call with two people: George Kent, a deputy assistant secretary at the State Department, who testified last week, and one other individual in the intelligence community, whom he declined to name.
Vindman said both Kent and that individual had the appropriate security clearances to discuss the matter and a “need to know” about the call.
Rep. Devin Nunes (Calif.), the top ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, pressed Vindman to identify the person in the intelligence community.
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) then interrupted.
“I want to make sure that there is no effort to out the whistleblower through these proceedings,” Schiff said. “If the witness has a good-faith belief that this may reveal the identity of the whistleblower, that is not the purpose we’re here for.”
The whistleblower whose complaint set in motion the impeachment inquiry has been identified in news reports as a CIA employee. The Washington Post has not identified the person by name.
Vindman said that he does not know who the whistleblower is. Nunes questioned why then he could be outing the whistleblower by saying who in the intelligence community he talked to about the call.
“I’ve been advised not to provide any specifics on who I spoke to inside the intelligence community,” Vindman said. “What I can offer is that these were properly cleared individuals or was a properly cleared individual with a need to know.”
Nunes reminded Vindman he was under oath, appearing under a subpoena, and advised Vindman that he could either give the person’s name or decline to answer citing his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
It was not clear why Vindman’s testimony on the matter would be incriminating.
Vindman says he believes transcript was moved to separate server intentionally
Vindman testified that he believed the transcript of the July 25 call was moved to a separate server intentionally, contradicting NSC senior Russia and Europe director Tim Morrison’s earlier testimony that it had been moved to that server by accident.
“It was an on-the-fly decision to kind of segregate it to this other system,” Vindman told lawmakers, adding that while he thought “it was intended … it was intended to prevent leaks and limit access.”
Vindman noted that he didn’t take the decision to limit access “as anything nefarious.” He also added that while he believed there were “two substantive items” missing from the transcript – a reference to Burisma and “recordings” – their omission was “not a big deal.”
Vindman said he reported the July 25 call to John Eisenberg, the top legal adviser for the National Security Council, in July because he believed Trump was making direct reference to an “alternative false narrative” about Ukraine in the investigations he mentioned to Zelensky.
Vindman also reported a July 10 meeting between senior administration officials and Ukrainian leaders at the White House, in which U.S. ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland “referred to specific investigations that Ukrainians would have to deliver in order to get these meetings, a White House meeting,” citing investigations into the Bidens, Burisma and 2016.
Vindman said he retorted that “these requests were inappropriate and had nothing to do with national security policy.”
Vindman describes contentious July 10 meeting with Ukrainians
Vindman told Congress that an early July meeting with Ukrainian officials at the White House marked the first time he learned that U.S. government officials were pressing Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.
Vindman said Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union and a key figure in the impeachment inquiry, referred to specific investigations into the Bidens, Burisma — the Ukrainian energy company where Hunter Biden served as a board member — and the 2016 elections.
The discussion was halted, but Sondland resumed the conversation in another room, Vindman said, though he could not recall how much of the disagreement among U.S. officials was aired out in front of the Ukrainians.
“I believe there was some discussion, prior to the Ukrainians leaving, when it was apparent there was some discord between the senior folks,” Vindman said.
Vindman said that he felt the July 10 discussion veered far away from U.S. policy on Ukraine and that he later reported his concerns to senior NSC officials.
“I said this request to conduct these meetings was inappropriate, these investigations were inappropriate, and had nothing to do with national security policy,” he told Congress.
Zelensky dodges question about Burisma investigation, says Ukrainians are tired of it
Zelensky refused to confirm or deny Tuesday whether he was prepared to publicly announce an investigation into Burisma after his call with Trump.
Zelensky, in a video posted by CNN, is seen narrowing his eyes and then subtly rolling them, before brushing off the question.
“I think everybody in Ukraine is so tired about Burisma. We have our country. We have our independence, we have our problems and questions. That’s it,” he said and then walked away from the cameras.
Kremlin following impeachment hearings, but won’t comment
A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin’s government said the Kremlin is following the impeachment inquiry but won’t discuss it because “we never interfered in their domestic affairs and are not going to do that now.”
The comments, reported by Tass, the Russian News Agency, were made after reporters asked spokesman Dmitry Peskov about allegations during the hearings that Trump was acting in a way that would benefit Russia over U.S. interests.
“We prefer not to interfere. Each time an electoral exercise approaches, Americans get highly susceptible to growing Russophobic sentiments, this time is no different. The whole world is hugely interested in the developments there, including our country. However, we do not wish to comment [on them],” Peskov said.
Peskov also said it’s Americans’ “domestic issue” to deal with and that Russia doesn’t interfere with U.S. domestic politics.
The U.S. intelligence community has found that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election and is looking to do so again in 2020.
Vindman says Burisma omission in White House transcript was a mistake
Vindman and Williams said that Zelensky mentioned Burisma during his July 25 call with Trump — a mention that was not reflected in the transcript summary of the call released by the White House.
Vindman attributed the omission of the word “Burisma” to a mistake by the staff that produces transcripts.
“I’d say it’s informed speculation that the folks that produce these transcripts do the best they can and they just didn’t catch the word,” he said.
The omission does not detract from the importance of Zelensky purportedly mentioning Burisma. Vindman said the Ukrainian president was either tracking the issue in the press or was “otherwise prepped” for a call in which his staff thought the matter would come up with Trump.
“It seemed unlikely that [Zelensky] would be familiar with a single company in the context of a call that was on the broader bilateral relationship,” he said.
Vindman describes concerns over July 25 call
Vindman said he knew he had to report Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky to White House lawyers once it concluded, calling it “inappropriate” and “improper for the president to demand an investigation into a political opponent.”
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) focused on the call during his initial questions to Vindman and Williams at Tuesday’s hearing. Both officials listened to the conversation between Trump and Zelensky, which has become central to the impeachment inquiry.
Vindman said he was concerned that Trump’s request for investigations would undermine U.S. national security and policy toward Ukraine. He said he believed Zelensky would have interpreted the request as “an order” given the “power disparity between the two leaders.”
Williams said that at the time of the July 25 call, she did not have enough information to discern whether the investigations were linked to military aid. But she called the request “noteworthy” and unusual.
“It was the first I had heard of any requests of Ukraine that were specific in nature,” she said.
Vice President’s office instructs aide not to discuss Pence call with Zelensky
Pence spoke with Zelensky on Sept. 18 — but Pence aide Williams has been instructed not to testify about the contents of the call.
Under questioning Tuesday from Schiff, Williams confirmed that she listened in to a Pence-Zelensky call that day. But before she could answer additional questions about the call, Williams’s attorney, Justin Shur, stepped in to explain that the vice president’s office has said that the call is classified and instructed Williams not to answer questions about it.
By Sept. 18, military assistance that had been frozen to Ukraine had been released. A whistleblower complaint about Ukraine had been submitted to the Intelligence Community Inspector General but was not yet public. That day, The Washington Post first reported that the complaint dealt with a phone call to a foreign leader and a “promise” that was sought on the call but did not name Ukraine as the country involved.
Schiff proceeded to ask Williams if she would be willing to provide information about the call in a classified session, meaning the committee would have access to the information but it would not likely be released publicly.
“I would be happy to do so,” she responded.
Vindman’s prepared testimony emphasizes his American story
Vindman’s prepared testimony appears designed to address, in part, the polarized debate about his character and credibility.
His opening statement emphasizes his up-by-the-bootstraps American story: His family fled the Soviet Union four decades ago to start a new life in the United States, an experience that built in him a sense of dedication to his new country. Today, he and his twin brother serve in the U.S. military, both assigned to the NSC at the White House.
Vindman’s five-page prepared statement moves quickly to the important role played by Ukraine as a bulwark against Russian aggression, with repeated emphasis on the importance of the bipartisan support Ukraine has received in the past from Washington.
The testimony contains moments of personal emotion, as Vindman takes time to herald his father’s decision 40 years ago to flee the Soviet Union and take his family to a place where his children could grow up without fear — and express themselves freely.
“In Russia, my act of expressing my concerns to the chain of command in an official and private channel would have severe personal and professional repercussions,” Vindman says in the opening statement, adding that “offering public testimony involving the President would surely cost me my life.” Vindman then expresses personal thanks to his father for “his brave act of hope 40 years ago” taking him and his siblings to America to start a new life.
“Dad,” he says in the statement, “my sitting here today, in the U.S. Capitol talking to our elected officials is proof that you made the right decision forty years ago to leave the Soviet Union and come here to the United States of America.
“Do not worry, I will be fine for telling the truth.”
While his prepared testimony extols the bipartisan support Ukraine has received in the past from the United States, he says he recently “became aware of two disruptive actors — primarily Ukraine’s then-Prosecutor General Yuri Lutsenko and former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trump’s personal attorney.” The statement says the two were “promoting false information that undermined the United States’ Ukraine policy,” including promoting the idea that the Ukrainian government should investigate actions of the Biden family as a condition for receiving U.S. government support.
“It is improper for the President of the United States to demand a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen and political opponent,” Vindman says in his statement. He reported these “improper” requests on July 10 and July 25 to White House lawyers.
He emphasizes that he “did so out of a sense of duty.” He says he moved privately to report his alarm to the proper authorities in the chain of command.
“My intent was to raise these concerns because they had significant national security implications for our country,” he says, adding, “I never thought I would be sitting here testifying in front of this committee and the American public, about my actions.”
Williams and Vindman sworn in, testifying under subpoenas
Williams and Vindman have both been sworn in by House Intelligence Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) and are delivering opening statements.
Both are testifying under subpoena, according to Schiff and committee aides.
The subpoenas are meant to protect the witnesses who were instructed by the White House not to participate in the impeachment proceedings.
Nunes questions whereabouts of whistleblower
Rep. Devin Nunes (Calif.), the top ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, used his opening to again bring up the intelligence community whistleblower as someone who should be called to testify.
“Now that the whistleblower has successfully kick-started impeachment, he has disappeared from the story,” Nunes said. “It’s like the Democrats put him in their own witness protection program.”
Democrats have said the whistleblower’s testimony is no longer needed because there are many witnesses who have corroborated the details of the whistleblower’s complaint.
Nunes also accused the media of being “puppets of the Democratic Party.”
In opening statement, Schiff slams GOP and White House attacks on witnesses
In his opening statement, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) referred to a tweet from Trump calling Williams a “Never Trumper,” likening it to Trump’s attack on former ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovich during her Friday testimony, which some Democrats said amounted to witness intimidation.
“Ms. Williams, we all saw the president’s tweet about you on Sunday afternoon and the insults he hurled at Ambassador Yovanovich last Friday. You are here today, and the American people are grateful,” Schiff said.
Schiff also brought up the Republican strategy to discredit Vindman as anti-Trump and therefore not a credible witness.
“Col. Vindman, we have seen far more scurrilous attacks on your character, and watched as certain personalities on Fox have questioned your loyalty. I note that you have shed blood for America, and we owe you an immense debt of gratitude,” Schiff said. “I hope no one on this committee joins those vicious attacks.”
Schiff went on to defend the witnesses as not being “for or against impeachment.”
Schiff said it is for Congress to decide whether Trump “abused his power and invited foreign interference in our elections, if he sought to condition, coerce, extort, or bribe an ally into conducting investigations to aid his reelection campaign and did so by withholding official acts.”
Three Republicans on panel are also military veterans
Vindman, a combat veteran and recipient of the Purple Heart, who will again testify in his uniform as he did during his closed-door deposition, will face a panel that includes three other veterans — all Republicans.
Michael K. Conaway (Tex.) served in the Army for two years from 1970 to 1972. Brad Wenstrup (Ohio) is in the Army Reserve and is an Iraq War veteran. And Chris Stewart (Utah) served in the Air Force for 14 years.
With the Republican strategy to discredit Vindman as a “Never Trumper,” it remains to be seen if the three GOP veterans will join the attacks.
Hearing gaveled open
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) has gaveled the hearing open. Williams and Vindman are expected to testify shortly.
Williams will say Trump-Zelensky call was ‘unusual,’ dealt with ‘domestic’ politics
Williams, a State Department official detailed to Pence’s office who listened to Trump’s July phone call with Zelensky, will testify that she found the call “unusual” because it involved discussion of what appeared to be a domestic political matter.”
Williams’s assessment is significant because Trump has argued that the call, which sparked the whistleblower complaint that spurred Democrats’ impeachment inquiry, was “perfect.”
Williams is scheduled to testify publicly alongside Vindman, who also listened to the call and was so alarmed by Trump pressing Zelensky to open an investigation into Biden that he immediately reported his concerns to a NSC lawyer.
Republicans would like to isolate Vindman and suggest his poor judgment and policy disagreements with Trump over Ukraine were the true sources of his displeasure with the call. They have noted that other Trump officials who listened in as the two presidents spoke were not similarly distressed. That effort, however, could be complicated by Williams’s similar, though milder, response to hearing Trump’s request.
In a closed door deposition earlier this month, she said she found the call’s reference to issues of domestic interest to Trump to be “inappropriate.” She said she was not surprised when the call proved controversial when its contents became public.
Unlike Vindman, however, Williams also said she did not report her concerns to her superiors or other officials. Still, coverage of her earlier comments prompted Trump to attack the career Foreign Service officer on Twitter over the weekend.
In an opening statement Williams plans to deliver Tuesday, she will say that in April 2019, around the time of a first friendly phone call between the two presidents, she listened as Pence also had a good conversation with Zelensky to congratulate him on his recent election.
She will say that Zelensky invited Pence to attend his inauguration and that plans began to be made for Pence to travel to Kyiv for the event at Trump’s instruction. Those plans ended, she will testify, on May 13, when she was informed that Trump had subsequently directed Pence to skip the event. She will tell Congress that she was never provided a rationale for the switch.
She will also testify that she learned on July 3 that security assistance money to Ukraine had been frozen but that she and other officials were never able to learn why.
When Pence was asked to fill in for Trump at a meeting with Zelensky in Warsaw on Sept. 1, Williams participated in briefings and discussions of the aid freeze in preparation for the discussion. But that no one ever suggested the money was being conditioned on the Ukrainians opening investigations into Biden or the 2016 election, Williams plans to testify.
Likewise, she will say that when Zelensky raised the issue of the frozen aid directly with Pence at the meeting, which she attended, neither Pence nor Zelensky mentioned the investigations. Pence instead responded that Ukraine had the United States’ “unwavering support” and “promised to relay their conversation to President Trump that night.”
Army is monitoring whether Vindman needs special protection, relocation
The Army has been monitoring security for Vindman and is ready to move him and his family to an Army base if necessary to protect them from threats, according to a person familiar with the discussions.
At the Army’s request, local police in the Virginia suburb where Vindman lives had stepped up drive-by patrols around his home last week, and Army officials continue to assess whether their national security aide needs to be relocated for additional protection.
Vindman sounded an early alarm about Trump’s July 25 call with the Ukraine president, and complained Trump’s request for an investigation of his political rival was improper and disturbing.
Vindman and his twin brother Yevgeny and their families have been concerned about their personal safety in the wake of President Trump’s denouncing Vindman as a “Never Trumper witness” and Fox News host Laura Ingraham described Vindman as “a U.S. national security official . . . working inside the White House, apparently against the president’s interests. ”
On Monday night, before Vindman was set to testify, Republican lawmakers attacked his credibility as a witness in the impeachment inquiry.
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) said he suspected Vindman was a member of the “Deep State” of career bureaucrats trying to undermine Trump.
Vindman’s lawyer, Michael Volkov, on Monday called Johnson’s assertion “such a baseless accusation, so ridiculous on its face, that it doesn’t even warrant a response.”
“Lt. Col. Vindman is a patriotic veteran, awarded the Purple Heart, who has selflessly served this country for over 20 years,” Volkov added.
Meadows characterizes controversy as a policy dispute between Trump and ‘the swamp’
Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), a Trump ally, sought to blunt the impact of Tuesday’s upcoming testimony, characterizing the controversy as a policy dispute between Trump and long-serving government officials.
“He has the right to set foreign policy,” Meadows said of Trump during an appearance on Fox News. “What you’re seeing play out today is really all about the swamp trying to say, ‘We have a better idea than the president of the United States and the American people in terms of what should happen with foreign aid.’ ”
Williams arrives ahead of scheduled testimony
Williams has arrived at the Longworth House Office Building ahead of her scheduled 9 a.m. appearance before the House Intelligence Committee.
Vindman arrives in advance of scheduled testimony
Vindman has arrived at the Longworth House Office Building in advance of his scheduled 9 a.m. appearance before the House Intelligence Committee.
Vindman to testify amid signs GOP will try to discredit him
Vindman, a decorated combat veteran who serves as the Ukraine expert on the NSC and is considered a star witness by Democrats, will testify amid increased signs that Republican lawmakers will attempt to discredit him, despite his stirring personal story.
Some GOP members have suggested, as the president has said, that he is “an anti-Trumper,” inclined to resist the president’s policy objectives.
On Monday night, Rep. Douglas A. Collins (Ga.), the top Republican on the House Judiciary Committee, challenged Vindman’s credibility and his willingness to cooperate with investigators who quizzed him last month behind closed doors about the whistleblower whose complaint sparked the inquiry, as well as other matters.
When asked whether Vindman’s uniform would shield him from tough questioning at Tuesday’s hearing, Collins told reporters: “I don’t think it shielded Oliver North from hard questions.”
He was referring to North’s role in the Iran-contra scandal, which occurred during the presidency of Ronald Reagan and was investigated by Congress.
The complaints about Vindman from Republicans led a Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Rep. David N. Cicilline (R.I.) to issue a warning Monday evening to his GOP colleagues.
Cicilline told reporters: “If they attack the credibility of this patriot, they will suffer consequences in the eyes of the American people.”
Four witnesses scheduled for lengthy day of public testimony
The House Intelligence Committee expects to hear from four key witnesses over what is shaping up as a lengthy day of public testimony on Tuesday.
In a morning session, lawmakers are scheduled to hear from Vindman and Williams, two witnesses who listened in on the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky.
Vindman, the European affairs director at the NSC, testified in a closed-door deposition last month that he “did not think it was proper” for Trump to seek a Ukrainian investigation of a U.S. citizen. Vindman later reported his concerns to the lead counsel of NSC.
Republicans have signaled that they plan to try to discredit Vindman, a Purple Heart recipient and one of the most significant witnesses in the inquiry, by questioning his motives and his loyalty to the president.
In her deposition, Williams testified that she found Trump’s call with Zelensky “inappropriate” and politically motivated.
Williams is a State Department employee detailed to Pence’s staff and serves as his top Russia adviser. She also testified that it was her understanding Trump told Pence not to attend Zelensky’s inauguration, a move that deprived Ukraine’s new government of a high-profile statement of support from the United States.
Trump attacked Williams as a “Never Trumper” in a tweet over the weekend.
Morrison and Volker are scheduled to appear before the House committee in the afternoon.
Morrison was the top Russia staffer on the NSC until he resigned on the eve of his closed-door testimony last month.
He also listened to the call between Trump and Zelensky. Morrison has said he heard directly from Sondland that Sondland told Ukrainians that they would probably receive the withheld military assistance if the government announced investigations into Democrats.
Trump has said he does not know Sondland well and has tried to distance himself from the ambassador, a major Trump fundraiser whom the president gave a leading role on Ukraine policy even though Ukraine is not part of the European Union.
Volker is one of three men designated by Trump to steer Ukraine policy who dubbed themselves the “three amigos.” He testified behind closed doors that he knew Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani was pushing unsubstantiated theories about Biden in Ukraine.
Trump has Cabinet meeting scheduled amid the impeachment proceedings
Trump has a Cabinet meeting scheduled at the White House at 11:30 a.m., in the midst of what is expected to be a dramatic day on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.
Typically, Trump opens at least part of these meetings to reporters and takes questions. The meeting is the only public event on the president’s schedule on Tuesday, so it is the most likely time that he will weigh in on impeachment proceedings in person.
A bipartisan event scheduled on a day of partisan infighting
Amid what is expected to be an acrimonious day on the impeachment front, lawmakers from both parties plan to gather in Statuary Hall in the Capitol for a portrait unveiling ceremony in honor of former House speaker John A. Boehner.
The Ohio Republican held the gavel from 2011 to 2015.
Those scheduled to appear include House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.).
Trump bashes Pelosi for an impeachment quote that actually came from a Fox News reporter
Trump lashed out at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) in a tweet early Tuesday morning, misquoting her while characterizing the ongoing impeachment inquiry as a ploy to skirt around the 2020 election because “she thinks I will win.”
Trump weighed in on whether voters should decide his fate rather than Congress after Pelosi addressed that same argument against impeachment — a favorite among Republican lawmakers — in a letter Monday.
Stressing the importance of the impeachment hearings, Pelosi said in a “Dear Colleague” memo, “The weak response to these hearings has been, ‘Let the election decide.’ That dangerous position only adds to the urgency of our action, because the President is jeopardizing the integrity of the 2020 elections.”
Tweeting shortly after midnight Tuesday, Trump attributed a quote about the 2020 election to the House speaker — but it appears the quote actually came from a Fox News reporter in a broadcast an hour earlier.
Read more here.
‘I had never seen anything like that,’ Holmes says of Yovanovitch removal
The right-wing media attacks on then-Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch and her abrupt removal by Trump were a source of confusion and concern to officials at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv, a senior diplomat there testified.
“To have an ambassador removed because of this media campaign — I had never seen anything like that,” David Holmes, the top political officer at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv testified, according to a transcript of a deposition released late Monday.
Holmes also testified that a former Ukrainian prosecutor who worked with Trump personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani to campaign for Yovanovitch’s ouster had been a target of U.S. criticism for his failures to follow through on corruption probes.
Yuri Lutsenko “was a big disappointment” to U.S. officials, Holmes testified. Seen as a potential reformer when he was given the job as Ukraine’s top prosecutor, Lutsenko was instead “just a politician” whose requests for meetings with senior officials in Washington were spurned by U.S. Embassy officials, Holmes said.
Hale says he was unaware of Giuliani’s role until reading it in the news
David Hale, undersecretary of state for political affairs, said he did not become aware of the role of Trump personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani in Ukraine policy until after a whistleblower complaint was made public in late September.
Hale, according to the transcript of a deposition made public late Monday, said his knowledge of Giuliani’s role came only through public news stories.
Hale also said he never discussed the issue with other State Department officials at that point. Asked why not, he said, “It was clear that these were matters that were going to be under, or already were under investigation, and therefore I didn’t want to appear in any way to be influencing potential witnesses to this committee.”
Asked how common or uncommon it would be for a president to lean on a private person for public diplomacy, he said, “Well, it’s not unprecedented.”
When asked to name someone, he said, “It’s hard to think of an example that quite matches this particular one.”
Hale says all agency deputies pushed for Ukraine aid, except OMB
Hale testified that at a so-called “deputy small group meeting” of agency No. 2s, all the representatives pushed for U.S. security aid to Ukraine to be released from its hold — except an official from the Office of Management and Budget.
“The lone objection came from the — directly from the representative of OMB,” Hale said, though he didn’t name the person.
In the transcript of a deposition released late Monday, Hale said he was not given a reason for the hold but said that “there was information that came to me starting in late June that a hold had been placed on both Ukraine assistance and Lebanon military assistance without any explanation.”
Impeachment: What you need to read
Here’s what you need to know to understand the impeachment inquiry into President Trump.
What’s happening now: The House is holding public impeachment hearings. Three officials testified last week; more are scheduled for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.
This follows closed-door hearings and subpoenaed documents related to the president’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, an inquiry prompted by a complaint from a whistleblower. Lawmakers’ inquiry could lead to impeachment, which would mean the U.S. House thinks the president is no longer fit to serve and should be removed from office. Here’s a guide to how impeachment works.
How we got here: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced the beginning of an official impeachment inquiry against President Trump on Sept. 24, 2019. Here’s what has happened since then.
Stay informed: Read the latest reporting and analysis on the impeachment inquiry here.
Get email updates: Get a guide to the latest on the inquiry in your inbox every weekday. Sign up for the 5-Minute Fix.
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